Did you know… adding insulation to your home can be one of the fastest and most cost-effective ways to reduce your energy costs! Listen to expert guest Kris Williams, Director of Energy Services at Ozarks Electric Cooperative, discuss the advantages of insulation, different types, which is the best to use, R-values and more so you can learn how to save energy and money with insulation.Here are some links from the podcast to help you learn more:https://www.takecontrolandsave.coop/welcome-to-our-blog/posts/2020/september/value-of-insulation/https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/weatherize/insulation
Did you know… adding insulation to your home can be one of the fastest and most cost-effective ways to reduce your energy costs! Listen to expert guest Kris Williams, Director of Energy Services at Ozarks Electric Cooperative, discuss the advantages of insulation, different types, which is the best to use, R-values and more so you can learn how to save energy and money with insulation.Here are some links from the podcast to help you learn more:https://www.takecontrolandsave.coop/welcome-to-our-blog/posts/2020/september/value-of-insulation/https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/weatherize/insulation
My name is Aaron . I belong to the Como Cooperative out of Tipton, Missouri. And their service is amazing. They're very friendly and eager to help us anytime we need it. And the reliability is amazing.
Harrison Waters:Well welcome everybody to the Power For Your Life podcast, where we focus on energy efficiency, the value of electric, cooperative membership, and safety around electricity. I'm your host, Harrison Waters, and today we'll be discussing the value of insulation. Adding insulation to your home can be one of the fastest and most cost effective ways to reduce your energy costs . And with me on the phone today to talk about how you can benefit from proper insulation is Chris Williams. He's the Director of Energy Services here at Ozarks Electric Cooperative. Chris, thanks for joining me today.
Chris Williams:Thank you for having me.
Harrison Waters:Absolutely. Well, I, I recently came across a , uh, an interesting fact from the US Department of Energy, and it's stated that one of the most cost effective ways to make a home more comfortable year round is to add insulation to your attic. You know, based on that, what we know is insulation can save energy and money and make your home more comfortable. Are there any other advantages of insulation?
Chris Williams:You're right, Harrison. Uh , not only does insulation add to the comfort and savings in your home, but it also prevents moisture, which can cause mold and mildew. Certain types of insulation such as celluloses, can even prevent insects and rodents from taking up residents . And if you have teenagers like I do, it will help muffle their musical instruments and video games. Also, an important example of proper amount of insulation is the potential reduction in the size of the HVAC equipment in your home. Not only does the correct amount of insulation save on the electric bill , but it can also save on the wear and tear of the HVAC equipment.
Harrison Waters:Wow, that's interesting. That's great to know. Yeah, a lot of more advantages to adding insulation than I would've ever thought of. I know there's several different types of insulation like you mentioned. Can you maybe elaborate on those and tell me what's the most EF efficient?
Chris Williams:Yeah, that's correct. Insulation materials are all across the board. I will highlight the most common for our area from bulky fiber materials such as fiberglass, rock and slag , wool , cellulose and natural fibers. All of these articles resist conductive and convective heat flow . There are also rigid foam boards to foils, which trap air to resist conduct conductive heat flow. We feel that you get the best bang for your buck through cellulose insulation, which is recycled newspaper material due to the R value of 3.5 to 3.8 RS per inch. Foam insulation or foam in place . Insulation has a very high R value of seven to eight rs per inch and produces a strong air barrier, but can be more expensive to install.
Harrison Waters:Interesting. Okay. And maybe tell me a little bit more about like what's the most common type of insulation that in this area?
Chris Williams:Most common , uh, insulation are area R cellulose , uh, foam phone . You see a lot of , uh, the rigid walls that you put up before you , uh, add the outside material to the house.
Harrison Waters:Well, that's great to hear, Chris. Thank you. You know, and honestly I've, I've really, I'm always familiar with the, the pink bags, you know, of, of insulation. Um, is, is that something that's pretty common?
Chris Williams:It's one that's really been marketed , uh, really well over the last 20 years and it , it's not the only kind out there. It's probably the most convenient cuz you can just buy it in rolls and just put in your attic, put in your walls. But there are better types out there and you can really investigate that through the R values . If you look, you know, fiberglass has a , an r value of , of around two rs per inch. You get up into the cellulose, which cellulose has been around since the mid sixties, early seventies. So it's been around a while, but you do get up into closer to four hours per inch on cellulose. So definitely a lot of types of insulation out there. Do your due diligence and, and investigate the best kind that you need in your home. Gotcha.
Harrison Waters:Yeah. So what you're saying is possibly if you look at your, your attics or, or in , uh, crawlspace or different areas and you see those , uh, those bags and pink, you know, insulation in there, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have great insulation Right. It over the years, you know, there could be differences there, right?
Chris Williams:That's, that's correct. We, we often get that question asked here and fiberglass to us is it makes a real good filter and uh , what you need is a conductive barrier. You need something that'll stop that heat from , uh, infiltrated in your home and , and unfortunately fiberglass doesn't do a great job of that.
Harrison Waters:Well , great. And I know you mentioned the, the r value when you're talking different types of insulation and of course I've heard that before, but I don't really know exactly what it means. I've heard how much I maybe need to have in my house. Can you maybe elaborate on that and you know , a little bit more about the R value needed?
Chris Williams:Yeah, you bet. It's a very good question. Uh, in an insulating materials resistance to conductive heat flow is measure rated in terms of its thermal resistance or R value . The higher the r value , the greater the insulating effectiveness. Therefore, if you've been in your home 10, 20 or even 30 years, adding more insulation will increase the R value and the resistance to heat flow. We often get questions here at Ozarks , uh, about cellulose loose fill and what to do about settling. It's important to note that as the installed thickness increases for loose fill insulation, the settle density of the product increases due to the compression of the insulation under its own weight because of this loose fuel installations are valued, does not change proportionally with thickness. Also importance is to recognize the geographical zone that your home is in.
Harrison Waters:Hmm . No, that's interesting. For sure. It makes a lot of sense. Uh, you know, thinking about them , our members and listening, you know, within the associate family of cooperatives, we could have a member as far north as southern Iowa or as far as south as northeastern Oklahoma. So I suppose that these zones you're talking about, they may differ quite a bit from the most northern to the most southern part of our territory.
Chris Williams:Yeah, you're correct. The farther north you go, the higher the recommended levels of insulation, for example, zone five in the northern most part of Missouri and southern Iowa recommends a minimum of R 49 in the attic and a minimum of R 25 in the floor . Zone four, which occupies the majority of Missouri, recommends a minimum of R 38 in the attic and R 25 in the floors while zone three here where I am in Oklahoma recommends a minimum of R 30 in the attic and R 19 in the floors.
Harrison Waters:Wow. Yeah, that's a, that's a big difference in a range in those r values there. Wow. I've got another question on R values . You've mentioned the, the r value amount necessary for the attic, which I think a lot of members would understand how to measure that. Tell me about the r value you mentioned on floors. Is this something that's underneath the floor itself? This isn't something that you can see if you were to go in a crawl space , correct?
Chris Williams:Yeah. The , and , and that primarily was for crawlspace is what I mentioned. And , and yeah, you can see , uh, any crawl space if , if you're underneath the home, that's primarily a , a bat type insulation that's stapled up underneath that crawlspace. So yeah, that okay , that's for that recommendation. Recommendation came in .
Harrison Waters:So if I go down in my crawlspace, which I have done, I've looked and there's certain areas that I can actually just see the floorboards up in between all, you know, the different rafter , you know, does that, that's something that I could see an immediate benefit if I were to get all that insulated , um, how cold my floors are, which then I guess would just radi into my home.
Chris Williams:Right. Yeah. That'll benefit it , it kind of depends on your outside wall into that crawl space . If, if it's insulated really well, that part of your envelope won't be as affected , but, you know , some crawl spaces don't really have any, they may have a metal sheet that's protecting the outside air from getting underneath the home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if that's the case, you definitely need that insulation up under the home, but, but if your wall around the outside of your home is insulated, well you've got a pretty good barrier right there.
Harrison Waters:Gotcha. So if you think, if you think that heat rises, a lot of people are always concerned about the attic cuz they don't want their heat to to to slip out. But even thinking in terms of the winter and insulating, can you see just as many benefits from insulating a crawl space that's not insulated at all?
Chris Williams:You know, that's definitely where I would focus. If that outside air can get underneath that house, it infiltrates right up into your floors pretty crucial.
Harrison Waters:Yeah. I think that's where I need to start then I , I , I've checked the r value in my attic before and it's pretty close to where it needs to be and maybe needs a little bit of filler, but I go down to my crawlspace and I see areas all over the house that are not insulated. And so I've , I've discussed bringing someone in and getting that kind of started cuz I'm like, well, I could add a couple inches in my attic, but if, if the floors don't have anything , uh, that seems like a a better place for me to start, that
Chris Williams:Really would be
Harrison Waters:Let's take a short break and when we come back we'll talk more about how these tips from Chris can be implemented into your home and hopefully start seeing some savings right away.
Speaker 4:Electric cooperatives are not like other utilities. We know your community is important to you. In fact, it's one of our guiding principles, concern for community. Your electric cooperative is involved in the community by supporting schools and youth and safety education programs as well as other events. We live here too and we care about our members and our community. Discover the value of your co-op membership visit members first dot co-op today.
Speaker 5:Are you prepared to stay safe and warm? If a winter storm knocks out power, ice, wind and heavy snow can slow down restoration. So have extra blankets and supplies on hand to help weather a prolonged outage safely. And before venturing outside, be aware that ice and snow can hide dangers like downed power lines that are energized. Learn more about winter storm safety@safeelectricity.org.
Speaker 4:Discover the value of your co-op membership visit members first dot co-op today. Energy saving tip number 84, ensure windows and doors are properly weather stripped and used door sweeps.
Harrison Waters:All right , well welcome back to The Power For Your Life podcast. We're visiting today with Chris Williams from Ozarks Electric Cooperative . You know, you've explained the benefits of insulation and all the different types and how to know the amount you should have. So let's talk about how do we implement this. So Chris, where does a member go to get started?
Chris Williams:Yes, Harrison , this is definitely where the rubber meets the road. I believe the best place to start is in the attic. Prepare yourself with a flashlight and a measuring stick. Make sure to be safe and check the thickness in several areas of the attic. Once you measure the thickness of insulation, verify the type of insulation in the home and your geographical zone that the home is in. If you needed additional insulation , we will often recommend cellulose due to the multitude of benefits. Also, the electric cooperatives have a , they have a network of experts that can help and some cooperatives even utilize infrared cameras that detect lack of insulation and walls and hard to reach attic areas as well as glor testing, which can identify leaks and unforeseen issues within the home. But just check with your local cooperative for more details. Another DIY that a lot of members can perform is caulking and ceiling before you add insulation. Ideal areas to caulk are around canned lights, under sinks around the plumbing cavities and access , uh, attic access points. A couple of cans of Cal will seal a large area of your home. Also, there are some great YouTube videos , uh, on caulking where if you feel uncomfortable performing these tasks, contact your cooperative for help identifying a local company. And just please remember that if you have gas or propane in your home, it's important that the house receives fresh air unlike that of total electric homes.
Harrison Waters:Huh, well that's great to know. Do you recommend anything here on, you know, maybe a DIY versus a higher job? Is this something that a lot of members can do themselves or do you maybe recommend having someone come out and and handle this professionally?
Chris Williams:A lot of this, as far as ca you know, we , we provide a do-it-yourself kit that they can receive a ca gun with several cans of caulk . Most anybody , uh, that can handle a , you know, a a little knife that can cut that end off can do this type of of work. It's really not, not that difficult.
Harrison Waters:Great, great. Um, I've got one more question on this. Maybe tell me, you know, I, I have several of the can lights in my home and is it beneficial to make sure you have the proper light in those, like I've had a couple of the can lights have ordinary, you know, bulbs in there. Um, is it about filling the, the fixture that goes into the wall or does the light actually benefit by making it flush up against your, your ceiling?
Chris Williams:Yeah, and that's a good question. Can lights , what we've always , uh, suggested is, is to just put a , a small bead of talk around the flush area of the light that connects with the ceiling. Over the last few years, there's been a lot of new l e d fixtures that you can actually pull out your existing bulb, like you mentioned, and put in this new l e d fixture that will squeeze up against the ceiling and make a barrier that , uh, prevents your conditioned air to re uh , get up into the attic. So there, there's a couple of new ways to do it. The most inexpensive is that can of co the ceiling around the fixture.
Harrison Waters:Great. And do you recommend to any of the members out there about possibly insulating other, you know, outlets , uh outlets, light switches, those kind of things?
Chris Williams:Oh yeah, most definitely. And that's where we see a lot of evidence when we perform board or testing it, it imitates air coming in from all around the home, 30, 40 mile an hour wind and those are the most LA area that people look at. And, and you can purchase gaskets that'll cover light switches, that'll cover plugins and just take off the cover plate , put a gasket in and it prevents , uh, your conditioned air from leaving the home.
Harrison Waters:Great. Yeah. Cuz the air is gonna find the way. Right.
Chris Williams:Most definitely <laugh> .
Harrison Waters:Yeah . Well that's great information. I really appreciate that. So are there any other safety concerns that we need to be aware of when starting to do an installation project like this?
Chris Williams:Yes. Uh , as with anything, safety should be the utmost concern when performing those DIY tasks. Please always follow product instructions, local building codes and uh , safety on ladders in an attic spaces proper protective gear like safety glasses and face masks are very important when performing these tasks.
Harrison Waters:Is there still an air quality issue? I know previously with fiberglass in that, is that something that they should be concerned about?
Chris Williams:Yeah, air quality is , is really, like I kind of mentioned earlier, air quality is really important. If you have natural gas or propane in your home, your home does have to have a certain amount of air changes per hour. So that's where, you know , those local building codes are important to follow.
Harrison Waters:Well, those are all great tips , uh, Chris and you know, maybe you've mentioned this blower door test a few times and I'm just curious maybe explain to our listeners, you know, what that test is and , and what we the benefits of having one.
Chris Williams:Yeah. Blow door tests are, are very important , uh, in our area. They've been around for quite a few years. Uh , the , these tests, they determine the air infiltration rate of a, of a home or a building blur doors. They consist of a frame and a flexible panel that fits in the doorway. And a variable speed fan that sits right in that, in that doorway, a pressure gauge as used to measure the pressure differences inside and outside the home. And an airflow, manometer and hoses measure the airflow. So it, it really makes , uh, your home more efficient because it simulates air hitting all sides of the, of the house. And once this fan's running, you can walk through the house with a small smoke stick and really see where that air is coming into the house. You know , walk by light switches or electric plugs and, and you can really see where, where that outside air is really infiltrating or where your conditioned air is leeching out into the, the atmosphere.
Harrison Waters:Wow, that's great. Yeah. And is this something that a lot of our cooperative systems will, would have for, for others or do they need to go outside and , you know, maybe look for this somewhere else? You know,
Chris Williams:A majority of of the cooperatives have b p i certified professionals within the cooperative family or, or they can definitely help locate someone that can perform these type of tests .
Harrison Waters:Great. Now, you know, we've mentioned a lot about addicts. Is there anything that, you know, listeners need to know about other areas? Possibly crawl spaces or other ways to insulate?
Chris Williams:Yeah. Yeah, there's so many types of homes out there and crawlspace is, is a real big factor in conditioned air escaping. Uh , you've got lots of areas where duct work can be underneath the, in the crawl space or in the attic. We really always focus on how do we insulate that duct work ? How do we prevent animals or certain , uh, issues from, from tearing into that duct work . So that's something you should always check. We've, we've had homes where we went underneath the home and had some rodents under there keeping, keeping warm or keeping cool because the , uh, duct work has , has come apart and , uh, insulating the bottom of the , or blowing out on the bottom of the house. So unfortunate, but, but we see it quite a bit
Harrison Waters:<laugh>. Wow. Yeah, I never would've thought about that. I mean, ha have things changed over the years in how every how energy services, what they think of crawlspace areas and whether they need to be insulated or the airflow? Cuz I know, you know, everyone likely has some of these , uh, air vents that allow air in and out of crawl spaces . Is that something that, you know, members need to be aware of?
Chris Williams:Yeah, and and I would really, I would check with local codes cuz there are , uh, there are certain restrictions , uh, once you get under ho a home and, and getting that fresh air into that area, A lot of areas you do have to put plastic down, make sure there's a , a barrier from keeping the soil from leaking up leeching bad air up into the home. So , uh, that's definitely something. Check with your codes, check with local building inspectors for that type of in information.
Harrison Waters:Okay. That's great to know. Yeah, I've, I've had a house previously that required a vapor barrier and it was missing in a section and you know, the co uh, inspection caught that and I was required to go in and finish that vapor barrier all the way across. But I know my, my current residency does not have that. So , um, I'm just curious of, you know, like you said, making sure that everyone follows up with that code and knowing what their area , um, requires. Yeah,
Chris Williams:Very good point.
Harrison Waters:And I've had, you know, had my last house inspected with the thermal and I love that that stuff gets me like super excited to see, you know, hot cold areas, areas where, you know, I think where they add all of the , the areas up and they kind of give you this information. People don't realize if you've got a little bit of air gaps across your house, it may add up to a size of a small window of air loss through your house.
Chris Williams:You're exactly right. Yeah. It's not, not untypical to have three or four, a three or four foot hole in the Saudi of your house once you calculate all the leaks, <laugh> , I mean it's like, well just open that window and leave it open all day. That's, that's pretty much what the leaks have added up to , so ,
Harrison Waters:Yeah. Yeah . And that's, it's, it's very concerning when you think of it like that. If you, if someone says you've got an inch gap here and a small inch gap there, it's one thing, but then to think that you could have a three or four foot goal , you know, gap in your house is a big, big difference.
Chris Williams:That's so true. Yeah. Yeah. And that's , that's what that board or will really calculate. And like I said, that infrared gun is so important cause like you can't see certain, you can't see through walls and, but you can definitely see where, hey, that part of my roof doesn't have insulation because mm-hmm . <affirmative> , it's such a big and you know, cold when it's winter out, you can really tell the difference this time of year because there's such a delta in that difference in cool to to heat. So you wouldn't see it this time of year.
Harrison Waters:Yeah. Well I certainly recommend purchasing an infrared laser thermometer from your local hardware store. And if you go to certain areas in your home and you test it from close up , you can go from testing the wall temperature to the floor temperature to the window and start to see how drastic of a difference or, or even your , um, you know, the, your vents across the house if your , your hvac if the heat is, is distributing, you know, the right amount of temperature across the house makes a difference. Yeah,
Chris Williams:That's right. That's right. I know even, you know, I've got an Eco B thermostat and we just got a little sensor that we keep on the other side of the house and it's trying to keep it, you know, consistent <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's calls for more heat back here. So yeah. That , that sounds like a real good tool.
Harrison Waters:You know, I think that it's important to find those areas of, of air loss in your home. Is there any concern of making your house too tight? Is there, you know, you mentioned before if you have propane or gas, if you've checked to see that those are properly ventilated in your home. I , is there an issue with making it too tight , uh, to keep it, you know, your air inside, you know , in
Chris Williams:Yes. Un unfortunately you can make a , a home too tight if you have propane or natural or natural gas wood heat. There's certain , uh, toxins in, in those , uh, types of heating that need to escape the home, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah , that's very important to check code , uh, make sure you do have plenty of fresh air coming into the house. Uh , we recently in one of the communities that we serve, the code has been increased and it's really pushing those, the builders in that area to look at more electric water, heat , electric systems or if they don't, they're gonna have to put fresh air fans in the homes to actually circulate that air out. So , uh, we're seeing a lot of, lot of changes in, in different codes. So something to pay attention to. Yeah,
Harrison Waters:That's great. I appreciate that. You bet . Yeah, I wondered if that was something too, I know that's not in the insulation, so I didn't bring anything like that up, but I also thought about the opposite where everyone thinks insulation for winter, right? They don't think insulation for summer, but you know, when you've got heat outside and you've got cold air inside and insulation plays a pretty good role at that point to keep that air condition that you're paying for inside your home.
Chris Williams:Oh yeah. Yep , that's right. That envelope needs to be <laugh> keeping that hot a hundred degree heat out for sure.
Harrison Waters:Okay, wonderful. Well these are all great things, you know, members should keep in mind to stay safe when they're working on an installation project. And you know, Chris, you've given our listeners just a lot of great information to get started and maybe where could they go to find out more information if they wanna, you know, maybe dive a little bit deeper about this?
Chris Williams:Yeah, you bet. First thing I always mention, you know , go to your local electric cooperative and they always have some great information on the website or you can even call the , uh, electric cooperative and visit with a member for Energy Service representative. You can also reference the Take Control and Save website has great information on there , as well as the energy.gov Energy Savers website. Perfect.
Harrison Waters:Well thank you so much Chris for joining me today. Uh, is there anything else you'd like to add for our listeners?
Chris Williams:Definitely a little bit of money will go a long ways. Uh , we get that payback pretty quick when you start trying to seal up your home a little bit so it helps with that electric bill helps with comfort and savings. So definitely been a pleasure visiting with you today, Harrison . And , uh, welcome to Cooperative Family
Harrison Waters:<laugh> . Likewise. Thank you so much. Well, you know, I hope our members can use these tips to save energy and money to stay comfortable in their home this winter and for years to come. So thanks for joining us.
Chris Williams:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life Podcast. To learn more about this topic and other safety, efficiency and energy technology information, contact your local electric cooperative or visit us on the web at members first dot co-op. You can also follow us on social media at facebook.com/members first cooperatives pinterest.com/members first or instagram.com/members. First , if you have a question or topic you would like us to consider for an upcoming episode, email us at members first@aeci.org .