Electric Vehicles

Welcome to Power for Your life: On the Road, a podcast dedicated to Electric Vehicles. Join host Harrison Waters from Associated Electric Cooperative Inc. and guest Payton Oehlschlager from White River Valley Electric Cooperative Inc. as they discuss topics like EV suitability, range anxiety, home and business charging, and more. Visit membersfirst.coop for resources and follow us on social media for updates. Subscribe now for an electrifying journey into the world of EVs!

White River Valley Electric Cooperative

Transcript

Harrison Waters: 0:03

How do you know if you want to buy an EV or you should buy an ev?

Payton Oehlschlager: 0:10

It , it's just gonna require more front end work, you know, as far as planning goes.

Harrison Waters: 0:14

Range capacity goes up, range anxiety goes down.

Payton Oehlschlager: 0:18

Want to think about is like what your daily commute is.

Harrison Waters: 0:25

All right . Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. I'm Harrison Waters at Associated Electric Member Services and you are listening to The Power for Your Life podcast, where we focus on , uh, member benefits and energy efficiency. I'm here with my man , Peyton Oehlschlager. Did I nail that one? Boom. Got it. Okay. U h, y ou k now, Peyton, go ahead and tell us a little bit about your involvement in the co-op a nd, and what you do.

Payton Oehlschlager: 0:45

So, I actually work down at White River in Branson, and I am the energy services coordinator down there. So handle all of the , uh, member facing may , member facing conversations about solar or kind of emerging technologies like EVs , um, stuff like that. And also kind of handle our, our rebate program.

Harrison Waters: 1:04

Awesome. Cool. Uh, yeah. Well, speaking of EVs, electric vehicles, for those that don't use that , uh, that phrase all the time , uh, that's the topic of discussion today. We've got a long list to go through and trying to figure out , um, with the , the newer adoption of EVs around our area. And , um, if, if that makes sense for you. So right off the bat, how do you know, how do you know if you want to buy an EV or you should buy an ev? Yeah.

Payton Oehlschlager: 1:30

Uh , it's a good question and it's gonna look a little bit different for everybody , um, because obviously everybody's situation's gonna be, you know, pretty unique. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um , but the first thing that you probably want to think about whenever you're, you're looking at, if it's, if it's a good decision for you, obviously, is it financially viable? Um, cuz that's, you know, the first piece of every puzzle and

Harrison Waters: 1:49

They're not the cheapest cars. No,

Payton Oehlschlager: 1:50

They're not the cheapest cars. Now there's, I mean, innovation's happening, you know, every day . And it seems like if you're, if you're keeping up with it brands across, you know, automakers across the board are , are trying to bring cost down because that is, I mean, ultimately when you're talking about driving adoption and for new technologies, cost going down is really what pushes all of that forward. Um, and so new models are getting made and , and released, you know, pretty regularly trying to bring cost down. But again, not to shy away from it, that's, that's probably issue number one. Okay. Uh , but then just on a practical level , uh, something that you're gonna wanna think about is like what your daily commute is. Um, and so if you're, if you're driving, I think the rule of thumb is like 150 miles round trip a day , um, then you could probably handle having a commuter at least , um, ev. And so that's the, that's the simplest test. Um, obviously the, the task set in front of automakers and, and brands, you know, going forward is how do we make, you know, that one piece of the puzzle, you know, less important really. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because that , that's kind of an older, that's the older way of thinking that okay, if we do this, then, then that would fit Now, you know, you got your Ford Lightnings and all these other, you know, models that are trying to increase, you know, range and what they can do to make it more viable for everyday living for people that live in the middle of America and in rural Missouri or and rural Missouri , uh, rural , um, America , um, to make it viable for them to do everyday , you know, tasks drive across the country Yeah . And not have to be, you know, stopped and to

Harrison Waters: 3:32

Worry about it. Yeah.

Payton Oehlschlager: 3:33

Every, you know, several hours, well,

Harrison Waters: 3:34

150 miles is a pretty decent round trip for going to work. I hope that, you know, your 70 mile commute to work , um, with 10 to spare , you know, I hope it gets you there. Which honestly, you can't, even if you're talking 150 and you're doing a 70, I mean , you can't just rely on down to the last mile. I've been told like, there are so many different factors that, that change that number. So you can't, like on a gas tank, you hit that E light and you're like, okay, do I have 20 miles to play with here ? Or what? I don't know. There's obviously the topic of range anxiety is out there. Maybe , uh, mentioned to our members what range anxiety is and , uh, uh, why that's , uh, an issue with EV owners.

Payton Oehlschlager: 4:14

Yeah, I mean, it's, it is exactly what it sounds like it is. Um, and that is a , that's a great observation as far as like, not necessarily, you know, when you look on the dash, you're driving an ev it's gonna tell you what your range is left. And there's a lot of variables that like, go behind that number that, you know, it says you've got 250 miles, you might not necessarily actually have a full two 50, or you might have a little bit more than two 50 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and the thing that's interesting is that , uh, like weather and terrain can actually like play a pretty big role in that. Um, and so it's, it's, I would say it's , it's kind of a big deal to know your vehicle, the anxiety is created, you know, because of unknowns. So if you can eliminate as many unknowns as you can , um, you're gonna cut down on range anxiety. Um, and so taking shorter trips, obviously if you've got an ev you're talking to somebody that's got an ev if you're thinking about it and figuring out, you know, what does that look like? Um, if I'm driving and it's a short trip and I know I'm not gonna be, you know, in need of a charge, but if I'm driving in the wintertime and it's, it's sub 30 degrees, what does that look like as far as, it says that I've got 50 miles, I know I'm only driving 10. Is that really dropping 10 miles off my range or does it look more like 25? Because, you know, obviously the battery's working hard. And same thing in extreme heat. Um , and then same thing, like specifically, so we've got a Nissan Leaf at the co-op down in Branson. Okay. And obviously, you know, Branson, we've got, you know, considerable terrain, lots of ups and downs. And so when you're talking ev mileage, you know, 50 miles left on a charge looks a lot different. If you're driving over straight ground, you know, a flat ground, then it does versus

Harrison Waters: 6:00

Rollercoaster hills.

Payton Oehlschlager: 6:01

Yeah. If you're in the Ozark mountains and, and you're having to , um, you know, kind of give and take with that regenerative breaking when you're going downhill, but it's working tough when you're going

Harrison Waters: 6:09

Back, what's, what's worse on the EV is the, the cold weather or the high heat ,

Payton Oehlschlager: 6:15

Uh, both of them tax , like tax the batteries. Right. Um, I know that the technology is, is built on both sides. Weather stuff is like, I know Ford is looking at, like liquid does some stuff with like liquid cooled bat battery packs for in the summertime and extreme heat and in southern Missouri when it's gonna get really hot and it's gonna put a lot of pressure on those things. But I know that in extreme cold, you get down subfreezing and you gotta keep 'em warm. There's optimal operating conditions, so they're gonna be taxed one extreme or the other. So, and , and that's one of those things too that like technology, technology is going to continue to evolve and, and the battery tech is gonna keep getting better , um, to be able to get more life out of

Harrison Waters: 6:58

This . Right. But it's not just the temperature, it's, it's the fact that the temperature is making you use your air, air condition more, your, your heat, your music, your, you know what I mean? You are making a big difference and the car is like showing you with the technology, the, the readout of how much energy you're using. Correct . So mm-hmm. <affirmative> , you , you have the windshield wipers on, you're using everything that is driving down how ma your mileage, your range.

Payton Oehlschlager: 7:22

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It, it , it, it sure can. And again, just a great reason to <laugh> take , take shorter trips to begin with to understand how your car behaves and, and how well it can conserve energy whenever it's using those kind of like auxiliary operational functions Yeah . Is whether, whether it's music, windshield wipers, defrost, that kind of stuff that you wouldn't think of, you know, internal combustion engine, you're not, that's not really affecting how far you can go that's working your battery, but your alternator's going. And so understanding that like, okay, these are all things that need to be taken into account. Um, and , and so that's, and that's another thing that is probably just, it's, it's kind of a change of habit for people honestly is, is what it will probably require for it . You're talking about like eliminating range anxiety mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's, there's just gonna be, at least right now with the state of, of what the tech is right now and , and where development is currently, it's gonna require, you know, if you've got an EV and you want to try to fight range anxiety, it, it's just gonna require more front end work. Um, uh, you know, as far as planning goes,

Harrison Waters: 8:26

Yeah. You're gonna have to go back to the MapQuest days, right? Yes. Yes . No longer, you're just driving the open country. You need to, you need to plan it out. You need to see where you need to stop for a picnic because, and I don't , I'm not making fun of it. I'm just saying like, you know, you need to know if you're going to drive several hundred miles, you're gonna need to know where to stop and prepare for a what, 30 minute stop a one hour right now where we're at. I mean, yeah,

Payton Oehlschlager: 8:50

Right now you're looking, I mean, if you're , if you're going 0%, I mean, hopefully you're not at zero, right ? So if you go on , like rule of thumb is like 10% to 80% if you're at, you know, a DC fast charger, you know, you could do that in 45 minutes, 30 minutes. Um, which is, I mean, obviously it's longer in filling up your tank of gas. Right? Um, but I mean, that's what you're looking at right now. And so, and I will say too, part of that is like continually being mitigated by, by the automakers because these, these , these , these cars now you go out and you buy a brand new, you know, a Ford Lightning or a Tesla Tesla or something, it's gonna have built in to the, the actual computer system in the vehicle.

Harrison Waters: 9:35

Type your destination. Yeah . Know where to, yeah . Yeah . It's , it's , I'm joking in Map Quest, I just remember those days of printing off like all the directions and knowing how far, but I mean, that's a real concern. Range anxiety is something that people need to understand prior to buying a car , um, to, to know what kind of trips that they go on. That's one of those checklist items, right? You have about saying, you know, before you purchased this, do you go on a lot of long trips, you know, or is this a daily commute? Cuz that makes a difference.

Payton Oehlschlager: 10:02

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Are you, are you wanting, are you in a position that you can, you can get one of these things and know that, you know what, I'm, I'm using this thing as a commuter and I'm getting to work in it and we've got, we've got an SUV at the house that if we're driving across the country or something , um, see family, whatever it be , um, that we've got that in our back pocket now, eventually very well could be that, you know , range increases enough and the charging infrastructure increases , um, and, you know, it doesn't take as long to charge. Right . And so EVs can handle all that stuff too, but just as it stands right now, something you gotta consider, range

Harrison Waters: 10:37

Capacity goes up, range anxiety goes down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> go a little bit further, be able to take those trips or maybe switch over. So, but you've got, so you've got ICUs, internal combustion engines, you've got electric vehicles. Tell me about what about that sweet spot in the middle hybrids? Is that a viable option? Should people consider those?

Payton Oehlschlager: 10:57

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, personally of all of , of all of the options that are out there, I, I really like hybrids. Um, and you've got, you've got two different types. You've got your like traditional hybrid that's gonna be, it's a , it's an internal combustion. It's a gas engine, and that's what's powering the car. And then there's also an electric motor in there , um, that is being charged off of like ba uh , brake regeneration. Um, so like whenever you're applying the brakes, it's actually recharging that battery and so you don't plug it in or anything. Um , and it's running off of gas, but that electric motor is helping your fuel efficiency like greatly. Um, and then you've got the, the , the newer style of, of hybrid, which is the, the plug-in hybrid. And that those models actually allow for full EV ranges. So they'll operate like a true fully electric vehicle, but

Harrison Waters: 11:52

Also still have the backup .

Payton Oehlschlager: 11:54

Yes. They , they still got the, still got the , uh, internal combustion engine. So if you want to take a trip across the country and you , and you don't wanna mess with having range anxiety, you can do that where if you're, if you're gonna piddle around town or something, or if you're commute, if you're driving, if you're driving eight minutes to work, you know, these plug-in hybrids have, you know, all EV ranges. It's, I think it's, I think it's like usually 20 miles to around like 50 miles I think is about the furthest , um, full EV range Okay . Of the, of the plug-ins right now. And I would, I mean , I would have to guess that's gonna just continue to go up.

Harrison Waters: 12:29

So it is a perfect in the middle can work for that , um, you know, can get your daily commute done, but also have the , uh, safety blanket of , uh, of an engine if needed, if you go on longer trips. Um, so something to consider, it sounds like doing your research is important , um, when it comes to purchasing a vehicle , um, utilizing , um, you know, there's a toolkit out there that a lot of the cooperative , uh, websites have that showcase and can help you determine if it's the right fit for you. So, you know, we've discussed the importance of, of , uh, range and how far affordability , um, and these are continuing to grow and then now it's hybrid. It's that perfect in between . So it could be the best one to jump into first if you're not ready to go full into , uh, a , uh, ev

Payton Oehlschlager: 13:13

Yeah, absolutely. A great introduction into kind of the EV world and learning how the car operates without, you know , fully diving both feet in off the deep end and, and, and immersing yourself in that it still allows that security and, you know, gets you used to the new tech.

Harrison Waters: 13:32

Well, let me ask you this, and I , this could be something you're not aware of. Um, have you operated in a hybrid vehicle?

Payton Oehlschlager: 13:37

Yeah, so my wife, my , so my wife actually drives, it's just a traditional high hybrid. It's not a plugin. Okay . Um , but she, she drives a , a hybrid.

Harrison Waters: 13:45

Now, if anyone out there hasn't tried to drive an electric vehicle before or had , you know, if you're familiar with a battery powered golf cart or something, it , it has a totally different feel. Um , the way an EV drives versus a car is , is totally different. Does it feel that way? Can you feel when it switches over, can , does it feel like an EV and then all of a sudden it goes back to the engine? And do

Payton Oehlschlager: 14:05

You , so when it's, when it's operating, if , if you've got it set to where you're operating in like a traditional hybrid mode, you can kind of feel it just in that, like if it's a four cylinder engine internal combustion engine , it's probably not gonna have a whole lot of pep getting off the line. Um, but if you've got a hybrid that that electric motor is gonna help get it going. Yeah . And so your , the response time's gonna be a little bit different. And that's really the only, and , and it's usually they're a little bit smoother. So for our, for our hybrid specifically, it, they're , it's , it's an electric transmission and so there's no, there's like no RPMs, it's not measured in RPMs. It's instead of, you know, getting up to, to 4,000 RPMs and shifting and you feel it, you feel the RPMs drop. Okay . And you feel the engine change. Yeah. Um, that doesn't happen in, in, you know, a traditional hybrid. It's all just smooth cuz that transmission is engineered in a completely different way. Interesting. Um, so that's different now. And , and that's gonna be how it is in an actual plug-in hybrid too. If you don't have it in EV only mode, if you've got it , if you have it in EV only mode, it's gonna operate like an ev it's gonna have instant torque, all of that stuff. All the stuff you hear, it's all the stuff you hear on, on EV commercials whenever if , if you see a commercial for the new, you know, the new Ford Mustang or the new , uh, or the new Lightning or , or Tesla or whatever that they're talking about all the, you know, it's, it's zero to 60 times crazy.

Harrison Waters: 15:33

Yeah. It has some jump It is definitely giddy, giddy

Payton Oehlschlager: 15:35

Up . Yes. It's gonna have all it's gonna run that way. Um, it's just obviously it's gonna be a shorter

Harrison Waters: 15:41

Distance. Yeah. I wonder if all hybrids have the option to , um, to switch it between EV only. Do they have all the, can you tell it what to do? I'm sure the tech is there for all hybrids, but I'm not aware.

Payton Oehlschlager: 15:53

Yeah, well just if it's , if it's a plugin hybrid, then you can, if it's traditional, it's gonna , it's it's gonna ,

Harrison Waters: 15:59

It's what it is all time . Okay . I gotcha . Yeah. And so, you know, that , um, leads me into, you've made the purchase, right? So you, you , you check the boxes, decide this is the best fit for you. Um, now it , it's like getting this thing home. Okay . It's totally different world because before you were relying on a gas station, now you're home and you're like, okay, I've gotta plug this in every night. You've got , um, electrical work because the, the , um, ev actually requires some pretty decent charging. So maybe tell me, let's dive into like you're, you're pulling the driveway, you're super excited, you know , um, you gotta you gotta charge this thing. What does that look like? And then also you gotta , how does it charge You just plug it straight into a regular outlet. Of course you maybe different power demands there. Yeah,

Payton Oehlschlager: 16:41

Absolutely. So always great. Uh , first things first is get in touch with your co-op. Um, because if you're, if you're looking at home charging, you , you can charge, they've got, you know, you've got level one, level two and level three chargers and level one is just plugging it straight into 120 volt outlet and it's gonna take you like 24 hours to get a full charge. I don't think that that is really getting used , um, really by hardly anybody. Cuz it's just really not practical. Like if you're, if you're gonna get an ev you're not gonna wait 24 hours to fill it up to charge. Right. Um , and so what's what's most common is putting some kind of, of level two or like mid-range charging system in, in your home. So like in your garage, outside your garage, something like that. And those level two systems, it's gonna be, you can either plug 'em in into a 240 volt outlet, so like what you plug a dryer into. Okay. Um, or , uh, I feel like most, a lot of people just, just get them wired in , um, directly to their garage. And that's something that you'd want to , obviously you'd want like a , like a certified electrician or , or , or professional engineer to do. Um , just so that it's so that it's done right. But that's the amount of load that it's, that it's requiring. And so that will charge your, your ev in, you know, four hours uhhuh a full, full charge. And so that is much more practical when you're talking about like coming home from work, plugging it in. And a lot of these chargers are smart and you can actually, and and what what I tell people whenever they , if they ask me about it is you can, you can set times that you want it to charge. So like you , you , you probably don't wanna necessarily have it start charging right when you get in, get know, get in from work, but you can plug it in, program it, and it will, then it'll kick on at like 11:00 PM or something. Yeah . And then that way it's done and ready to go by 5:00 AM the next morning. Um, but you still get a full charge.

Harrison Waters: 18:36

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So definitely what I heard there is , uh, check with , uh, qualified electrician talk with your cooperative in regards to , uh, getting this, if you're gonna get it wired into your, your panel, making sure that you have enough bandwidth there to cover the power demand for , especially if you get, if you get two of 'em and you're , you know, cuz a lot of car , you know, households have two cars, so

Payton Oehlschlager: 18:56

Yes, absolutely. And excuse me , um, very important, especially when we're talking about like obviously our members, it's rural, rural Missouri. Right? And so if you , if you, if you're living on a farm and you're down towards the end of the line and there's maybe not a ton of capacity on that line, so there's not meaning there's not a ton of, there's not a ton of power flowing on that line anyway. Maybe the transformer at your house, your service, your , the , the power available at your home isn't necessarily like just a ton of a ton of energy at your home available to you. And so you start adding, you add in, you wire in one home charger and then, you know, you wire in a second home charger that could potentially tap out the transformer at your home. And so that's why it's very important to like keep your co-op in the loop throughout the process so that if you do need a transformer upgrade and you need to go from 200 amp service to a 400 amp service mm-hmm . <affirmative> , they can make sure that that happens beforehand instead of , you know, blowing a transformer. Right . Or, or , or doing or causing something to, to , to , to malfunction. Um, and that , cuz that's, that's no fun for, that's no fun for anybody. Right . It's no fun for us. No fun

Harrison Waters: 20:06

For them . Well, and it's, no, it's certainly like not fun. It , it's great to , uh, avoid going to the pump. Right? That's what you're doing. You're eliminating going to a gas station, but now you're telling me if you get two of these, you're looking at maybe the , um, the low demand of, of two drying your dryers. Um, so if you're running your dryer also now you've got three of those going at once, that's a pretty decent amount of power being pulled hopefully in your HVAC could be running . I mean that's, you're, you're going to, you're gonna see it on your electric bill mm-hmm. <affirmative> because you're not paying at the pump. Um, maybe this is a great segue straight into the difference between kilowatt versus, you know, fuel, you know, prices. How do they determine that? How do you know , um, obviously with the, the fuel prices, the volatility of the price changing all the time, how can you do that equation?

Payton Oehlschlager: 20:55

Honestly that that's, that's all that it is. It's, it's, it's just running the numbers. So it's, it's determining how far you can get on a tank of gas, how many, how many miles that gets you. Okay. And then you're taking the , the cost of that gas, dividing it by that mileage. And that's, that's how much it costs you if in gas to get that far. And then you're doing the same thing for an ev. So if you've got a 300 mile range and you're ev if you're charging it at home, you're taking that, that the rate that you're paying for that electric mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you are then comparing those numbers. It's, it's really , it's just an , it's just an equation. It's like

Harrison Waters: 21:31

Yeah. It's just a But that equation is out there, right? That's on your website. Can you go to your website? Is that part of that toolkit ? The choose EV toolkit ?

Payton Oehlschlager: 21:37

Yes. Yeah. If you pull up choosey , ev and I think pretty much every co-op in the state , um, has that on their website. Yeah.

Harrison Waters: 21:45

The majority are using that. So go to your co-OP's website for it.

Payton Oehlschlager: 21:49

Yeah. And, and so it'll, it'll show you what you'll save and what the difference would be. And it , and I think it gets as granular as like looking at different models of EVs mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then figuring out what it would cost you. Right . And , and you can put in all those

Harrison Waters: 22:02

And in your current car too. Yes. Your car , you can put in your current car, what the ev you're looking at it , it starts to do all the math for you. Um, it'll, it'll answer this, you know, if you're into, you know, that equation, making sure that you're gonna be covered. Because once again, you do have to look at the fact that you are , uh, avoiding the pump. Um , but you'll also have to , um, consider how much you're adding to your electric bill due to the fact that you're , um, you know, putting that load , uh, in demand of, of power need at your home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think that's, that's something, check that one off the list. Yeah . If you gotta, you've gotta do all of these before just jumping into it, you know, of course. You know, gotta look affordability. You've gotta look at is it a viable option for your commute and your vacations and the travel you do now. You gotta look at , um, support at your home for the actual charging of this. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> the infrastructure, I guess. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Well let's jump over to possibly the business side of things or looking at some of the different chargers out there. You know, you've mentioned one, it sounds like level one is nearly obsolete at this point. Yeah . And we're , we're , all I hear is level two versus level three chargers. Um , you maybe break that down. Elaborate on what makes sense here when you would use a level three charger. Yeah,

Payton Oehlschlager: 23:17

So the level the , the difference in the Chargers themselves is level two is gonna get you from zero to 80% in like two to four hours typically. And then your level three , um, that's gonna get you from zero to 80% in , you know, 40 minutes to an hour. So it's almost

Harrison Waters: 23:33

Half the time.

Payton Oehlschlager: 23:34

Yeah. It's , it's , it's pretty close. And so functionally that's, that's the difference from our member's perspective. From our perspective, it's a massive difference in the actual power required to run those different types of stations. Um, and so the level two that's gonna , that's kind of like mid-level power, like we said, it's, it's something like, you know, the residential ones are drier . Um , the commercial ones that you'll find publicly are they gonna , are , they're gonna draw more than that, but still a level two nonetheless. Um, and so something that is always important, I feel like that I , when I'm , when I'm talking to members about this that they're considering is like, okay, when is it a good idea? Like when do I need to be looking for one charger or the other mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I feel like the most simple way to think about this is a level, level three charging or d CFC charging , um, depending on, on , on, you know, what you're looking at or whatever it , it'll be referred to as , as both. Um, that type of charging, that fast charging really should be a a a last resort, you know, for our members. Okay . If, if they, if they're in a bind, if they're in a pension, that's the only thing that's available. Um, obviously use it better than, better than running out. Um, but the tradeoff there is you're gonna pay a premium. So those, those fast chargers are almost always going to be more expensive mm-hmm . <affirmative> to actually charge your vehicle than public level two charging. But then definitely more expensive than at-home level two charging. So really if, if you can help it, and I think the number is something like 80%, if , if you've got an ev you're , you should expect to do about 80% of your charging at home on your home charger. And there , there's obviously, there's a couple different things that play into that. It's, it's more convenient cuz it's at home , you know, you're getting home, you're not going anywhere over the over, you know, overnight. So you can just let it charge and then you can use it the next day. Um , but the second part of that is it's, it's just, it's less expensive. Um, you're, you're getting power directly from the source. You're paying, you know what you're paying in electric, you know what the rate is for your home. That's what you're paying whenever you're charging at home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that rate is not what you're paying if you're going to a , a publicly available charger and you're paying, you know, you gotta think that you're probably paying for the electric that you're, you're getting plus, you know, the , the overhead of whoever actually owns that station right . On top of that. So the likelihood of it actually being , um, as cheap as, as

Harrison Waters: 26:08

They're gonna make some money for putting in the charger for you to make it convenient, similar to a gas station. Yeah .

Payton Oehlschlager: 26:13

Which only , I mean, it only makes sense. Yeah. Um , but it's just something that, I mean, it's still new, so like you might not actually like think about that part of it.

Harrison Waters: 26:20

Yeah. What , um, that's, that's good to know. And so yeah, it sounds like you gotta take that, you know, start with your at home level two, then look for level twos if you're out there, but you're gonna pay some more and possibly level threes if you're in a pinch and mm-hmm . <affirmative> , you know, you might not be utilizing a charger to, to do a full charge. You might just be using it to make sure you have enough to get back home and

Payton Oehlschlager: 26:39

Yes. Absolutely. And, and I mean, I feel like this is a good like rolling right into, I, I feel like I, I have a lot of conversations with, with business owners about this because it's new technology and , and , and people that wanna see, you know, be seen as, you know, being on, on the front of the curve and not the back of the curve mm-hmm. <affirmative> , um, are looking at, you know, hey, I'm interested in, in putting, in charging , um, at , at my business. Like I , I'm , I'm seeing all these commercials, EVs are coming, everybody says EVs are coming get on the wave. Yes. And I , I want to be ready to go. And I , it's , it's admirable that they are, you know, trying to get ahead of it and, and figuring out how to , how to position themselves. Well and I , I think that one of the most important things you can do in that situation, which is great, reach out to your co-op, see, alright , what , what does this process look like? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then something else that's good is like determining what would actually fit your business well. Um, because obviously if you're, if you're listening to commercials, you're, you're listening to the, if you're on a , a government webinar or something and they're talking about the need for, for fast chargers all over the place, we need more fast charging, we need more fast charging. That's true. But it may not actually be beneficial for your business. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> and , and how you are structured. If you are, you know, if you're on I 44 and you know, you've got a ton of, of through traffic that they're stopping and they're filling up and they're leaving could make a lot of sense, then maybe it makes sense. Yeah. But if you're not on a corridor like that, and let's say , uh, you know, you're a shopping center or something, or a restaurant and your customers are coming in, they're parking, they're gonna hang out for a while , then I , I would venture to say that a level three is not necessarily the right, right. Choice one, they're, they're far more expensive than level twos. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> just the Chargers themselves. And then two, they are, they're far more expensive in infrastructure costs . So like you're talking, you know, potential lineup upgrades and , and just a , a ton of infrastructure work that is not usually required for a level two charger. Right. And if you think about it, is it really that bad of a thing to have your customers coming in and plugging in their car for two hours while they, while they get something that while they get something to eat while they walk around, go shop while they honestly a great fit. And specifically, you know, down in Branson, got a lot of resorts Oh , okay. Yeah. Lodging resorts, something with that phenomenal parking , phenomenal option pay for it . Right . For, for level two charging because Right . If it , you know, people that have EVs, they're looking up, Hey, where can I stay that I can get a charge? Right. And so that immediately puts you in that bucket. And then again, just a great fit for, they're coming in, they're done, they're done with their vacation day or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they can plug in at night. You don't have to spend the extra overhead to do a level three charger and they're getting all the functionality that they need. And it's, it's , it's a win-win for everybody . Yeah. So it's, do your homework. You

Harrison Waters: 29:40

Know, our cooperative , uh, service territory for Associate electric includes, you know, 51 distribution systems . So a lot of them are that rural , um, footprint. And so not all of them have , uh, maybe a Branson around the corner mm-hmm . <affirmative> that has plenty of different , um, you know, lodging or, or attract , uh, traction entertainment stay. So places where people are gonna stop for an hour no matter what. Yep . Same thing. Um , so you have to keep that in mind to , you know, cause I know, like I said, you , you want the business to make the right decision. Um, the common theme here I have heard is reach out to your local electric cooperative because they, they have people like Peyton, they have people that can answer these questions and they get a lot of them . Um, there's another one that's been coming up , uh, uh, I think a lot lately that you've heard of is , are these 19 kilowatt chargers? And that might be kind of early on that, but who knows have a year from now how many more adoption of that? Cuz I'm sure the level two three, there's gonna keep growing. So have you heard a lot of those discussions about these

Payton Oehlschlager: 30:39

Chargers ? Yeah, they're definitely gaining traction and to get in , I mean, not to get into utility speak , but 19, no, don't Exactly 19 kw. So all that means is that it's a lot of power. So that's, it's still technically a level two charger. Okay. So it's still technically a mid range charger, but it's pulling down close to 80 amps of power ,

Harrison Waters: 31:03

Um, for like a home. And you're talking residential,

Payton Oehlschlager: 31:05

So you technically could put it in a home. I haven't really seen that where I've seen these or it , it is a business case. So like it would be a restaurant or something and they're wanting to put a level two charger because there is still less infrastructure involvement and they're still cheaper than level threes. But that is where you're closer to a 0% to a , uh, 80% charge. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , you're closer to two hours at that point, two , two and a half hours instead of your, you know, the longer four hour time period. So if you're wanting to have that be an option, these level , uh, these level two 19 KW chargers, they're kind of, they're kind of picking up a little bit of traction in that regard. So what I would say to that, I don't think that they're , they're not gonna slow down cuz they're, they do fit a good little segment of the market that is, yeah . It's faster than a , a slow level two, but it's cheaper than a level three. Um, so the biggest thing for that is you absolutely are gonna want to talk to your co-op because the likelihood of a required service upgrade, if you're at that kind of of power , um, you know, to your, your current load mm-hmm. <affirmative> , um, very, very likely that you're gonna need to , uh, to have some kind of upgrade. Yeah . So you're gonna want to get them involved early so that you don't end up with some, some , some bad news and find out you've got , yeah. You've got power issues going forward.

Harrison Waters: 32:24

Well, and this might be new now and who knows if you were listening to this six months down the road or a year, it could be far more common mm-hmm . <affirmative> and who knows what, you know, when it comes to EV adoption, we're still, you know, we're in the early days here. I know, you know, EVs, I don't know how long they've been around. We can maybe throw that up on a screen and throw out the date. Cuz I'm not sure of that. You know, you're the SME in this. I'm just the average Joe. But, you know, really, when it all is said and done, we're in the very early states of all this and you just, you want get it . If you wanna get on board , just make sure you can cross off a lot of this. Um, yeah . I'll say from Associated Electric standpoint in regards to , um, the grid, I know that that is something that mass , uh, electric vehicle adoption is going to take some time for , um, the building of new infrastructure for the grid to be , um, to understand, you know , this additional load, right? Yeah . Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it, it's gonna take some time, but you know, it's, it's a slow climb. Like they're not all coming on at once and we're not, not everybody is running out and getting an EV today, but the numbers continue to grow. And so I think that's something that needs to be continually monitored. I'm sure the cooperatives are doing that, especially at the generation and transmission levels as well. So , uh, um, you know, I think that , uh, we'll see where it all ends up. Right. Yeah,

Payton Oehlschlager: 33:39

Absolutely. I mean, it's exciting times to, it's exciting times to be in the industry. It's exciting times just for the American population at large just because there's so much change going on all the time and , and there is so much development going on , um, in , in the electric industry, in the grid , um, you know, as a whole. Um , so yes, there's tons of data getting collected , um, from the EVs that are on the road now so that , that we can, you know, prepare for the , the path ahead in the , in the future that is, is laying out there in front of us so that everybody can be in a good position, you know mm-hmm . <affirmative> whenever that adoption , um, you know, catches up a little bit.

Harrison Waters: 34:14

Well, and it , it seemed like just a few years ago it was like , uh, there was like , uh, Teslas and a couple other options and every year it seems like another car manufacturer has come on board to, to meet that , um, requirement to be all , uh, electric at some point. And so we'll see what that looks like in the future. But I know that this has been helpful because I'm learning a lot just kind of going through the topics that it sounds like our cooperatives are getting all the time. Um, these are pretty much the most common , uh, questions that , uh, that Peyton's hearing mm-hmm . <affirmative> and , uh, that , uh, we can, we can start to get out in front of, and like he , like he was mentioning, keep in mind that you need to go through a checklist to determine if it's right for you. Right. Determine that and absolutely. Uh , get on your cooperatives , um, website and look for that Choose EV toolkit that they're gonna have on there and look for that page. And they've got some great information there to really help with that and also reach out to them and , um, to learn if it's the right fit for you. Anything else you need to add? Peyton? Does , did I hit

Payton Oehlschlager: 35:14

It? Yeah, nailed it. Okay . Just happy to this super fun day. Well,

Harrison Waters: 35:17

Thank you so much for , uh, joining us. This was Peyton, I'm Harrison, and , uh, you're listening to Power for Your Life Podcast , uh, electric vehicles. We're , uh, we're happy to have you be sure to go to Members first , uh, website to learn more about this and other topics on the benefits of being a cooperative member and energy efficiency. And that's all for now. Thanks for joining.